WOMEN, QUOTAS AND POLITICS:

INTERVIEW WITH MS. DRUDE DAHLERUP

"There is a mood for trying to do something different. There is a trend, even if it is very controversial", said Prof. Drude Dahlerup, of the University of Stockholm, speaking about quotas and other measures to promote women in politics. Prof. Dahlerup has published the first, global study on the use of quotas in all major regions of the world, entitled Women, Quotas and Politics (Routledge 2006). She gives an interview to the World of Parliaments.

Q: There is a controversy surrounding the introduction of quotas to give women a better chance of being elected to parliament, even among women. Why?
Drude Dahlerup : The introduction of quotas all over the world is controversial. A large number of countries have introduced quotas, in spite of their controversial nature. There are over 40 countries which have inscribed in their constitution or their legislation some kind of positive measures for women and there are about 50 countries where the political parties have voluntarily introduced quotas or other measures in their own statutes. We have been looking at the discourses, controversies and all kind of rules, because sometimes quotas are merely symbolic. It makes a big difference, for instance, if you have also some kind of sanctions for non-compliance with legislated quota measures. It is also crucial that quota measures be targeted and detailed. For instance, it is important to have rules about the ranking of women candidates on party lists, like in Costa Rica. Because one can have 50% women candidates on a list but if they are at the bottom of the list very few have a chance of being elected.

Q: How do you explain the fact that more and more measures are being adopted?
D.D. : Some countries, like Sweden, use the zipper system, whereby every other candidate on the list is a woman. But I want to make a distinction between fast-track policies and more gradually implemented measures. Some developing countries are coming and overtaking former top-ranking countries. In Scandinavia we used to be alone at the top with 30 - 40% women in parliament. But in the last couple of years, Rwanda has become number one in the world with 48.8% of women in parliament, while Sweden has 45.3%. Costa Rica is now number three, ahead of Denmark, Finland and Norway. Post-conflict societies - Afghanistan, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Iraq, Rwanda, Uganda - started from scratch and today, with all the international recommendations,including from the IPU, one can suddenly change and make leaps in history, something we have never experienced in Europe previously. Costa Rica went from 19% women to 35% in one election, something that we have never achieved in Scandinavia. There is a mood for trying to do something different. There is a trend, even if it is very controversial.

Q: If everybody seems to agree that it is important to have women in politics, why is there resistance when we speak about quotas?
D.D. : I identify four categories of resistance. One is the anti-feminist way of saying that politics is a man's business and that women should stay at home. This is not very interesting. Then there are the postcommunist countries which say that they had quotas during the Soviet regime and that they don't want them again. In fact, they didn't have quotas at the top, where the leaders were men. There is also the liberal opposition, saying that it is a question of merit and not a question of gender. Finally, you have the most interesting one: the feminist opposition, which says that quotas may create a certain amount of stigmatization. The other question is whether there is a sufficient number of women ready to enter into politics. In general, I would say that at the national level there are no problems in getting a sufficient number of women, because in a parliament there are 600 legislators at most. That means that 300 competent women are required, which is not difficult.

Q. What is your response to those who refuse quotas?
D.D. : I am not advocating quotas, I am advocating more women in politics. There are many measures - quotas is one of them - which under certain conditions, can be very efficient. But I can also say that men have been elected on informal quotas for many years. It is much easier for men to become politicians and be elected or re-elected, if they are already there. I would also argue that quotas are a temporary measure.

Q: Could quotas be considered as a form of discrimination against men?
D.D. : No. It would be discrimination if everything was fair, but if the starting point is that everything is not fair since men already have some advantages, then quotas or other measures are compensating the discrimination against women. The most important thing is that parties realize that they are the gatekeepers. It is time they start recruiting women and putting them at the top of the list and not at the bottom. Not to mention the electoral system. Countries have to come up with measures that match their political system. For instance, in countries with a majority system like India, the United Kingdom and the United States, the rate of women's representation is very low: 15% in the United States Congress and 19.5% in the United Kingdom Parliament. That is an embarrassment which is partly due to the electoral system. The question is: how can one have quotas in a majority system and only one candidate for each party? In this kind of system one has to do things differently. Another interesting factor that I would like to add is that today international image is becoming more and more important for countries. To have more women in politics is a symbol of being more democratic. That was not the case 15 years ago.

Q: How do you explain the fact that Swedish women have obtained parity in government and such a high ranking in parliament?
D.D. : This has been a very slow development. Women have come on to the labour market and they are just as educated as men. Sweden is a secular society and it is based on social-democratic ethics. In Scandinavia it took women between 70 and 80 years to achieve what they have achieved. (See also website www.quotaproject.org).

  "We believe that equal participation of men and women is crucial to truly deepening democracy"

INTERVIEW WITH MS. MONICA XAVIER

Uruguayan Senator Monica Xavier was elected President of the IPU's Coordinating Committee of Women Parliamentarians in Nairobi. In her first interview, Senator Xavier shares her priorities with The World of Parliaments.

Q: As President of IPU's Coordinating Committee of Women Parliamentarians, what will your priorities be?
Sen. Monica Xavier : My first priority will be to strengthen the promotion of women in politics – an area in which the IPU is a leader. This task can be achieved by establishing networks of women in politics in each country and between parliaments. In this regard, globalization has given us opportunities we must not bypass, but also disadvantages which we must take up as challenges and overcome together. Nowadays there is virtually no theme (trafficking in women and children, HIV/AIDS, domestic violence) that can be addressed without drawing on the experiences of other countries. Hence the key role IPU plays in linking us together. Second, I believe that as Latin American women, there is still insufficient South-South exchange. It is obvious that owing to our origins and our countries of destination – for cultural and economic reasons inter alia – our ties to countries of the North are greater than with the South. Achieving better and broader interrelation and knowledge are huge challenges and it is through inter- and multicultural dialogue that women will be able to help generate a culture of peace in a very decisive manner.

Q: You mentioned a culture of peace, how can that be achieved?
M.X. : Encouraging society and political representatives to engage in processes to learn about cultural differences and accept the different values shared by nations will go a long way to achieving peace and understanding among nations. That is why it is crucial to support communication processes in the cultural endeavours that reflect our rich and varied differences and similarities in this globalized world. Some more modest measures include combating sexism in advertisements, gender stereotypes in the media and, in particular, discriminatory stereotypes against cultures of the South. Our hemisphere's children must be introduced to society with its regional idiosyncrasies, while recognizing through games and formal education that its rights and duties are equal to those in any part of the world, irrespective of capability, gender status, ethnicity or religion.

Q : How would you describe the situation of women parliamentarians in Latin America?
M.X. : Women are under-represented in parliaments in Latin America. The global average of 16.6 per cent is surpassed only by four percentage points in our region (20.7%). On average, women obtained the right to vote and be elected on the continent in the 1940s but the dictatorships which several of our countries endured in the 1970s made the processes of integrating women in political positions difficult. The Legislature is no exception since this underrepresentation can also be observed in the executive branch and the top echelons of the judicial branch. Nowadays women participate freely in these three spheres but they do not reach top positions as they come up against a "glass ceiling"- an expression which I have adopted as my own. Indeed, in theory, nothing stands in the way of our climbing the social ladder but in practice, such progress is forbidden. In this regard, the recent elections held early this year showed a rise in the number of women elected. That was achieved through affirmative action measures - quotas - which together with other positive results, helped increase average female participation globally.

Q: What message would you like to send to your male colleagues to foster greater cooperation between men and women in politics?
M.X. : We believe that equal participation of men and women is crucial to truly deepening democracy. Half of the population cannot be left outside the important decision-making arenas. This is particularly true for parliament, which is the institution that represents the diverse interests of society. If it is true, as I believe, that gender equality is an objective we must meet, then it is clear that we still have a long way to go in terms of female representation in parliamentary systems, particularly in Latin America. Notwithstanding their low numbers, women parliamentarians from different countries who are in contact with us and who collaborate with social organizations make their presence more visible. The challenge consists of increasing numbers, promoting gender-sensitive legislation and monitoring enforcement by the Executive. In this task of deepening democracy we must all, women and men, bring our different opinions and experiences to bear.

Q:. What can IPU do to further promote women's participation in parliament?
M.X. : A lot of things! Continue to promote affirmative action measures and conduct strict monitoring and evaluation of results, encourage parliaments to ratify international instruments and promote parliamentary action to repeal discriminatory laws, foster exchanges on various issues by way of seminars, panel discussions, etc. It can also promote debates and legislation on the democratization of political parties that mainstream affirmative action measures within their structures, discuss social policies that liberate women in part from their social role of reproduction and family life and mitigate the effects of the double burden on their chances of participating in politics. The IPU can promote anti-discrimination policies on the labour market so that women may gain economic and social autonomy and lead a full political life, promote proactive policies against domestic violence, which is a hurdle to women playing leading roles outside the home. Finally, parliaments and the IPU should lead by example in their technical and administrative structures and regulations that promote gender parity in day-to-day life.